Laxmi Hussain Transcript

SC: Hello, I am Syreeta Challinger, and welcome to Leaven, the podcast for conversation on hope, love, life and everything in between. 

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Leaven.  It’s lovely to have you here.  In this week’s episode I speak with Laxmi Hussain, a wonderful woman who embodies female empowerment, and the notion that creativity heals; something that we feel passionately about if you have been following us through the moments of sense and style.  And one of the reasons I was eager to speak with Laxmi, as I have followed her for a long time on Instagram, it was wonderful to finally speak to her for the first time, about her process, and her evolution as an artist.  I love how Laxmi navigates motherhood, body normalisation, love, grief and hope, through her powerful use of pen and her elegant pieces of art.  It is a wonderfully grounding conversation, about life, death, and the tiny, beautiful things. I hope you enjoy listening to this chat.  Here is Laxmi Hussain.

SC: Hello Laxmi, thank you for joining me today. 

LH: Hi. erm, thanks for inviting me. 

SC: Oh, no, it’s a pleasure. So, I know you as an artist, who I found you on Instagram, but would you mind telling us about yourself, and what, and what you do?

LH: So, yes, I am an artist.  I live, in I was born in London, I paint, and draw the female body, mostly, just because I started after I had my urm, my two older children, and drawing the body and wanting to feel that my body was more honoured than it had been in the past.  It didn’t feel normal to always have this negative urm, connection to it, and so I started directing my art in that way, and that’s what I really do today.  

SC: And it is really beautifully done, erm, it’s really fluid, and just, very, so bold and gentle but powerful, all at once, which is quite a skill. 

LH: Thank you.

SC: And I love that your work is rooted in the female form and so powerful, and I think it is also why I’ve resonated to it, because it is almost like you have used it as like a healing process, forgive me if that’s making a presumption, but I love the way that it’s, you have navigated your way through the evolution of motherhood, and life, through your pen and paper.  Would that be fair to say?

LH: Yes, absolutely.  I erm, I use art to keep the peace in my world, as it were.  It definitely is the way that I channel more, calm, more energy, erm, and it has helped me get through a lot of things.  It is, it is for me, escapism.  It’s also a labour of love when I am painting or drawing.  I wouldn’t say that it was a freedom, but it is, I don’t, for want of a better word erm, well freedom is a beautiful word.

SC: It is a beautiful word, but yeah, the mental freedom I guess, yeah. 

LH: Absolutely.  It’s helped me get through many, many, things, especially over the last few years.  Erm, having lost my mother and gone through a short period where she was diagnosed with cancer, and then, to her then dying, erm, it was the only thing that I could pour my energy into. Erm, and now, it has sort of evolved so that I can see how it connects with motherhood, to being a daughter and as a friend. I was basically running my ideas through a friend, she made this connection, that I have gone from being the second generation to the first generation in my family, erm, so,, because, because I have lost my mother, so, so, I helped me to feel these connections to put them down on to paper, rather than speak about them, because it’s much more natural for me to use my hands and explore how I feel in that way. 

SC: Yeah, no, I can understand that completely. Erm, you mention your dear mum, and she was from the Philippines, and you grew up in London as well, if I’ve got that right?

LH: Yes.

SC: We have got very well, different stories, but then there’s little beautiful similarities as well.  So, I am also the daughter of an immigrant, who grew up in South East London, and I had conflicting opinions in my family about me pursuing creativity.  It wasn’t really something that was natural to my family unit, and I am really curious, how did your family support your creativity and, to work to, and support you to where you are now, and in turn how do you reflect that on to your children? 

LH: So, I have been thinking about this a lot recently, actually, because, especially with my parent’s erm, my parent’s backgrounds as immigrants, and we have also been talking about Black Lives and roles and privilege, and we’ve been discussing this with the children because my husband it half Somali so it is part of their heritage, and we want them understand more about erm, black culture and history, and their own black culture and history, but coming back to how that relates to erm, my parents supporting me, it; from an immigrant perspective, you come to a country where you seek better opportunities, which my parents definitely did, because especially, with my mum’s background, her family were very, very, poor, and so this is why she came to England she was 18 and you applied for jobs in the Philippines and she had to wait to get the job before you actually left, or bought your plane ticket.  You didn’t know where you were going, you didn’t know the people you were going to work for, and, in her circumstance, she was coming to England to go to Kent, to be a nanny, to, a live-in nanny for an English family…

SC: Oh, okay.

LH: I really can’t imagine how frightening that would be as an 18-year-old.  If I look back at myself as an 18-year-old, I was a kid. I didn’t have any of the determination she did, but then obviously, I had very different circumstances. 

SC: Of course. 

LH: So, with that in mind, she felt that the arts were a great privilege, and they are, being you know, studying art is a privilege, erm, and then it wouldn’t necessarily mean that her children would not go through what she went through as a child. She had struggles financially, so it was always like, yeah, “you’re such a great artist.”  I didn’t realise until after she’d died that she had kept so much of my stuff when I was little.  And, but, and she supported me always, whatever I did, but she would always have this niggling, “are you sure you didn’t need that job?” or, “you sure you shouldn’t do this?”  But, from her perspective, she didn’t want to work so hard, and then. spend her money on and art degree, when it didn’t necessarily guarantee that I would be financially better off…

SC: Yeah.

LH:  And I think that, that speaks for lots and lots of people, from both immigrant and black backgrounds, where you never really had financial security, erm, to pursue art is definitely a massive privilege, and so that is why I didn’t pursue it as a degree, because I always felt that it just wouldn’t be something that they would accept as a career.  But as a kid, erm, my dad always bought me art materials when I wanted them, my mum kept all my drawings.  So, behind the scenes they really did support everything that I did, and they always nurtured me being an artist, but they just never thought that it could actually put food on the table. 

SC: Yeah, no, I can relate to that completely, because you’re right, it is seen as a privilege it’s seen as something that’s not a priority when sometimes they just have to focus on like getting food on the table and paying the bills. 

LH: That’s it.

SC:  And yeah, a similar situation, where both my parents, even though my dad’s English, like he came from a very poor background as well, so, the focus was on grafting, you worked, and you worked hard and art was not seen as erm, important.  So, I find it really interesting to find erm, other people who are creative, who have come from that kind of similar space as me, and understand how it’s been navigated, and it’s, you’re almost changing the ancestral path, as well in a way. I just think it’s fascinating. 

LH: I think, erm for me, after I had  and I had a quite a long, well, it was nine months, not very long, but erm, I then decided, seeing, I think that was when Instagram kind of started to boom, and people started to create careers off the back of it, that I wondered if it was possible to potentially push my art forward in that way.  And, because I had never really stopped drawing, that’s what I used it to demonstrate what I was doing.  But mostly art has always been something that I use as a wellbeing activity, and I just started to put more and more of it up on Instagram and share how I did it, what I did, testing.  Erm, and because I have been doing that since the kids were very young, it’s become part of their world.  So, when the children come home, they usually want to draw or create something.  They are often asking if they can get their pens out and their pencils and draw or paint or make a mess generally, (laughs).  But, yeah, so, in my, in the space of one generation, have completely changed the mindset on art, and it’s very much is fundamental to how our family works.  

SC: Yeah, no, that’s fantastic. And they say that art is the highest form of hope.  I can’t remember who said that quote, I’ll have to dig that one up, but yeah, there’s something incredibly hopeful about putting pen to paper, or ink to paper, and just not knowing where it’s going to go, or what it is going to end up looking like.  And, I think, yeah, it also, I mean, from our perspective, in drawing and creativity has been deeply healing for Rob, I mean.  

LH: Yeah.

SC: You have a little awareness of our story, but Rob could only communicate through drawing for a really long time, and it actually helped the synapses in his brain like to reconnect and there’s a thing called neurogenesis, and it doesn’t just help folk who’ve got brain injuries, but it helps all of us.  That tangible connection of pen to paper, and that physicality of expression. I don’t think it’s spoken about enough really. Like then to be able to express yourself and learn that skill and that way of expression and communicating from a really young age is just really, really invaluable really.  It’s incredibly important, and to have that continue as you grow up, because all kids are creative really, aren’t they?

LH:  I mean, I didn’t actually realise what I was doing, in terms of providing them with art, until I started watching what they were, how they were evolving.  Because it is really fascinating, as an artist, to see, from a child’s perspective, how freeing erm, that they approach, how their minds approach art.  How, how, for example, I am always thinking “does that look good enough,” or, it’s very much what I am trying to explore in my work.  You know, trying to feel that the body is normal, no matter what it looks like.  Erm, I also struggle with that in my art, always wondering if I’m good enough, if that’s good enough, if it looks visually correct.  Whereas kids don’t do that, they just grab everything that they can, they want to play with whatever they can, and then they just create these fantastic things, that are, you know, you just want to stare at them and wonder what is going through their minds.  And that is really what I think inspires me now, because it has made me want to approach art in that way, and care less about what the finished product is, and more about exploring how I got there.  

SC: Yeah, it’s all about the exploration on route rather than the end destination isn’t it?  

LH: And I think that’s why I work in series.  So, whilst I am in the middle of a series, I am exploring this one thing that I have now found, it’s is so invigorating and I feel really excited, and then, once I have seen it all on the wall, and it’s kind of then either, they go off to their new homes, and there’s a few dwindling pieces left on their own, I lose all passion for it, because I’m kind of, “what’s next, what’s the next thing that I can explore?” So, I guess…

SC: So, what is next?

LH: Erm, at the moment, because I am a mother to a now young baby, I think that’s what’s next.  Erm, and, it is much more personal, although my work is very personal, but it’s naturally becoming more about my own body, so they are more self-portraits or self, yeah, so they are more about myself and my connection to my children.  I think, having a new baby without my mum, for the first time, has made me realise there is such a fine line between the boundary of death and life, and there were certainly moments, especially like when I was going into labour, when I felt such a closeness to that edge between life and death, erm, I felt so much more connected to my mum, in a different way that that is going to inform what comes next, I think.

SC: Wow, that is incredibly beautiful. 

LH: I think so…

SC:  And raw, and raw, and real, and honest.  And I think that’s why I am drawn to your platform and your work and what you do.

LH: Thank you. 

SC:  Yeah, I think it’s human and real, and I think that’s what, another thing,  something that we’re all kind of missing and losing through social, for all the brilliant stuff of social media, because we wouldn’t know each other if it wasn’t for it, but there is that element of disconnect of humanity and vulnerability, and I don’t want to use the word flawed, but the kind of, the dark and the light, the good and the bad,  because we are all made of a complex myriad of parts, and you can’t put a filter on it, for so long anyway, because it is not real.

LH:  No, no. 

SC:  Erm, so, I think it is really, its really important to have work like yours, especially at a time like this.  

LH:  I hope so.  It certainly got me through a lot of the harder moments, erm, during the very peculiar year.  I mean, peculiar?  It sounds too positive.  

SC:  Peculiar is probably an apt word. 

LH:  Yeah, I mean.  It’s been what’s helped me to focus on getting through what’s passed this year basically, erm, and I find that it’s like taking a walk. When you go for a long walk, whatever happens before you took that walk, however you felt, you somehow feel, even if it’s just a drop, you feel a little bit better, and that’s what my art does to me.  And even…

SC:  So, it’s your medicine in a way?

LH:  Yeah, absolutely, and I did explore therapy when my mum was sick. Because there are aspect, especially, when someone is that sick, you start grieving a long time before they actually die, or before you realise that they are going to die. 

SC:  Yeah.


LH:  And I tried to go to therapy, but I think I wasn’t ready, and I didn’t match very well with the therapist erm. 

SC:  Yeah, that’s so important.  To have the chemistry with the person you are bearing your soul to.  

LH:  It is, and it is really difficult, and not trying to shun what they do. I mean, she was very helpful in some ways, but it is, there is an aspect of, yes, it is easy to bear your soul to someone you don’t know, but the chemistry is really important.

SC:  It’s really important to have someone who’s like you, basically.

LH:  Yeah.

SC:  Or who has experience or who has an insight, or an understanding of what your background is like, because that is where I have clashed a lot with certain therapists, because obviously, over the past six years that we’ve been through, I have navigated that world, and dipped in and out of it.  Erm, and sorry if I’m making presumptions, but my experience of where I have clashed with someone is where they have come from a very, very different world to mine.  Is that fair to say?

LH:  You know, I never actually thought about it that way.  To be fair, I didn’t give it enough of a chance with this particular person for me to feel that way. But I do, understand what you mean, and I, I never went back, although my sister is doing some therapy now, erm, and actually having thought about it, I think this way, although brought about by being in lockdown, works much better.  So she is doing online therapy, but she can text whenever she wants, and it’s less like you have to turn to appointments, to an appointments, it’s more like, as if you were talking to a friend, and you can call them whenever you want.  If they’re available they pick, and if they’re not, they send you a text and say, “how about you know, 2 o’clock today.”

SC:  Oh wow. 

LH:  Not 10 o’clock every Friday, which I struggled with which also, I don’t know how I’m going to feel.

SC:  Yeah

LH:  And for me, with my art, at the moment, obviously, I am being pulled because I have a young baby but I still can do my art whenever it feels right for me. And that, that for me, made it such and issue.  And unfortunately, it was brought about lockdown and not physically being able to go to an appointment. But it’s more like, it’s much more casual, like you were talking to a friend. 

 

SC:  That’s sounds like just what counselling should be really. 

LH:  Yeah.

SC:  Formality can be a bit of a barrier sometimes.  

LH:  Obviously, I know you have to go to some appointments, because it is their work, but I think the way she’s being able to go about it, is, it sounds much more like it would be easier to communicate in that way.

SC:  Yeah.

LH:  And my sister is much less of a talker than I am.

SC:  Is it the two of you?

LH:  We have a brother as well.  So, I’m the oldest and then it’s my brother and then my sister.  So, my brother is sandwiched in between us. But my dad also has two older sons and they are quite a lot older, because my dad is, I think fifteen or sixteen years my mum’s senior.  Erm my mum has a humongous family, so we have always had lots of people around. 

SC:  Are many of them in the UK with you now or are they all over.

LH:  Actually, the majority of them are in the Philippines.  My mum has eight brothers and one sister.  And her, seven, no six, of her brothers are in the Philippines, one is in Canada and the other is in Hawaii, and her sister is also in the Philippines.  Erm, and, although we grew up here, far away from them, today, with Facebook, and every other social media app, it feels like they are just around the corner.  It’s just that we don’t…  

SC:  Gap (one word)

LH:  It’s very much like that.

SC:  Yeah.  It is a really strange time.   I mean, how have you managed to keep creating despite all the pain, and all the heartbreak and then all the intensity of lockdown?  You mentioned that it was like going for a walk, is it because it’s purely, the process of creativity is, is what helps you, rather than there being any barrier to it?

LH:  I think so, yes.  I mean that’s not to say I don’t have moments where I am completely frustrated, and even if I pick up a pen or a brush, I cannot get my ideas out the way I want them to.  Erm, but, for the most part, it’s just intrinsic.  It’s a part of who I am, and if I am not drawing or painting at some point, I do feel like I don’t know what to, how to explain it, but erm, I do feel a bit lost. Gap 

SC:  Yeah.  So, it’s very much part of your identity.  Because I was going to ask how your identity has changed along the journey of love, and loss and creativity?  Or, or, has it not at all, it’s just become more solid?

LH:  I think it’s changed a lot.   I mean I am definitely erm, more laid back about some things. But, also, so for example, I have a death anxiety now, which I didn’t ever have before.  And it’s not, it’s not about myself, it’s just about losing others, and that’s the hardest thing, I think.  Because I lost mum so suddenly, and so quickly, it’s that realisation that it could happen to anybody else.

SC:  Yeah, I completely understand. 

LH:  And also, that they could suffer the way that she did.  Because it was a such a short period, of seven months, that she went through so much, that it would just be heart breaking for anyone else that I know or love to go through that. Erm, and also, that year, six months, the six months after she died, my two best friends lost their mothers to cancer and I lost my first cousin to cancer.

SC:  Oh, my goodness.

LH:  So, it was a bit horrific, erm, and that is something that has changed me in a big way. In the same way, like you think that you would cling to every friend you ever valued, and it’s not to say that I don’t value everyone who has been in my life at some point, but there is also this erm, realisation that there is less time for things that don’t really benefit you mentally, all the time.  The things that, that, have a negative impact on my life for too long, I tend to remove, which…

SC:  Yeah.

LH:  can sound a bit brutal, but also if the relationship was breaking down in that way, it’s not good for the other person either.  

SC:  Yeah, and it’s that recognition that life is short and it is precious, erm, so why not surround yourself with what feels right and what feels good.  And what’s truly important.

LH:  And also, because I want to give good energy to the people that I love and care about and the people that are really surrounding me, erm, that, I have tried to take away, a lot, anything that isn’t benefitting both me and the other person.  And it is a shame, because at some point, I did, there are some people that haven’t been able to evolve the way that I have, because they haven’t necessarily been through grief and lost someone close to them, erm, and it unfortunately has separated us in ways that have not been able to understand before. And, I do feel like, if there was someone that was going through grief in the way I have, erm, that I wish I knew more about it so that I could have supported them, at that time, because I personally know friends that I just couldn’t understand how to approach grief with before.  And they probably have done what I have done to those that can’t understand what I’ve had to go through and we’ve had to part ways.  

SC: Yeah.

LH: That’s something that comes with grief that a lot of people feel is something harmfully done to them, but it’s not, it’s just unfortunately the person that was there the day before they lost that really important person to them a part of them has just gone, they don’t exist anymore and that is certainly what happened to me.  

SC:  Sorry, again, very, very different, but I can relate to some aspects of what you’re saying.  And it’s hard when some relationships, or friendships kind of run their course.  It’s almost like there’s a grief for that relationship in a way sometimes, and for the person you were before.  Grief is such a complex myriad of emotion…

LH:  Indeed.

SC:  this is why I wanted to create this platform and to share these kinds of conversations, so there is someone that you can listen to if you are going through something similar, erm. Because that is what I really yearned for, when, I appreciate my grief is more of a living grief, because obviously Rob is very much here, but we lost the person, a part of him, that day, and we lost a lot that day as well.  And, navigating it without any, any, peer support, was really, really difficult.  No-one has ever been through anything this big, and, as you say, if people haven’t been through stuff themselves, they just don’t know what to say, or how to be, or what you need.  Or ultimately just to say something, to reach out and say something I think, is better than radio silence.

LH:  You know I think there is as much taboo around, surrounding big circumstances, I can relate to a lot of the things you may have felt. I apologise from my perspective if it is also presumptuous.  Mum had a brain haemorrhage after her second round of chemotherapy. Because she had leukaemia, leukaemia has a very, very aggressive course of chemotherapy, and it can often cause blood clots and her blood clot happened to be in the brain.  And so, overnight we pretty much lost a lot of who she was, and in some ways saved her from what was to come, because one of the things, my mum lost was the ability to exhibit emotion erm, and she didn’t appear to feel emotion the way that she had before.  And, she, in the immediate, when she, when it was, when she was still suffering, she lost things like speech, she was very confused, she had hallucinations, and she was partly paralysed on the left side. And at that point I thought that we were losing her, because no-one has ever gone through, no-one I know, has gone through a stroke or had a brain haemorrhage in the way, in the way, that I had seen it so closely, so I just didn’t know what was going to happen.  You think about the brain and you think about blood on the brain and you just think death.  And it is so frightening.  And I also didn’t know what to make of it, who to speak about. So many people don’t know what to say to make it better and it’s not necessarily going to make it better, but comfort can come in the form of a cup of tea or sitting next to someone who actually feels like the whole world is coming apart.  But so many people, even if I were one of those people, I’d probably would have been the same, I don’t know.  I can’t, it is something that unfortunately society teaches us to navigate on our own.  

SC:  Yeah, there is that village and community feel, erm, which I have noticed more since becoming a mum, but obviously had felt it when going through this thing with Rob. Because obviously described, I am so sorry that you witnessed that with your mum on top of everything else.  Brain injury is savage, and it strips, it strips away the person, yet they are still there.  And we are so fortunate that Rob has managed to, well remarkable that he has come through and has held on to certain aspects of his personality.  But there are other families who suffer much worse and that’s why I describe it as living grief that we are going through.

LH:  Yeah.

SC:  The person’s still there, erm, I guess this could relate to people going through other health conditions as well, the person’s still there but you’re, you’re grieving for who they once were and the future you were going to have, all at once, because everything is suddenly very different.

LH:  Yeah.

SC:  And, yeah, I think what is so difficult with brain injury is that that loss of communication.  Not just the physicality but being able to articulate yourself, which is wildly important when you’re trying to connect. Obviously, touch is important, touch is the next best thing to show someone, but yeah, it’s a wild thing to navigate for sure, and especially when so young.  I mean a lot of these things happen to people when they are a lot older, and again, that’s why I want to talk about these topics, because, you know, this to happen in your thirties is not really that common.   

LH:  Wow.

SC:  But actually, when you dig deeper, it is, there are other people going through it, but society doesn’t hold a space for you, it kind of wipes you off a cliff, if you’re not following the masses.  So, there are lots of layers to the reasons for why I wanted to share these topics and…

LH:  Yeah.

SC:  and to, you know, to share the deeply, deeply sad, and there’s joy and beauty in there as well.

LH:  I think I, from my perspective, obviously I knew what love was.  Many of us are very lucky to know love and to experience it, but I didn’t actually appreciate what it was, or how many different layers there were to it before his happened. Like, I was so fortunate to have the mother that I had, erm, that I didn’t, there are so many things that I have unravelled since she died that, erm, and I still discover things that I remember that makes me think, wow, you know, that powerful love that she had was incredible.  It’s stuff like, sometimes it’s really mundane, it’s like, for example as an adult, an adult child, if I wanted the last bit of cake or, my mum would give it to me, even if I argued with her for her to have it.  It’s just, it’s silly things like that that you like, I think when my mum died the things, I missed the absolute most, are the mundane things.  My mum loved a cup of tea, I missed making her a cup of tea and having a chat with her at the end of the day.  Or just sitting next to her and watching really ridiculous, erm really old, crime dramas like Colombo or something.

SC: Who doesn’t love a bit of Colombo?

LH:  Just things like that that I miss so much.  Especially with Eden, I know, having had two children how much she would love and adore him, and when she’d came home, the first thing she would say is “where is the baby?”  And, I just know, in certain moments, when I see him doing certain things, or develop new skills, I know what she would say to him and know how she would touch him, and I know how she would laugh with him.  It’s, it’s weird, because I am living in this world where I feel that she is just behind a glass screen, but she is not here.  And that is the hard thing, because erm, I wrote an Instagram post when I’d just after I’d had Eden just to kind of share that I had had him, and the post, basically on the day that I was due to, the day that I went into labour, I heard my mum call me.  

SC:  Wow.

LH:  And I heard her voice like she was just at the door to my bedroom.  And I answered her, because I was like, half asleep, but also in labour, and I just said “yeah,” and I felt that today must be the day that he arrived, because of that.  So, that’s, it’s really weird, I feel like…

SC:  I can see that.

LH:  how can I explain this?  Because also, you know when the memories of, for example, when you are watching a movie and you see memories of someone that’s died, you can see that there is path there, there is an evolution, like say, for example, if they flick through photos of that person’s life.  But for me, whenever I look at a picture of my mum, I think of yesterday, I think of today, like it feels, it doesn’t feel like how I see it as an outsider.  And that’s, I think that these are the things that we don’t talk about when we are grieving.  And I think you that could probably relate to many of these aspects, as you’ve said earlier, because you are grieving the person that was as well even though…

SC:  Yeah.

LH:  the person is still they’re evolving in a new way.  You are still also living with the person that is no longer here.

SC:  It’s and, you’ve mentioned it, and we talk a lot about it as well.  It’s those moments of ordinary, and I guess, extraordinary joy like those simple pleasures.  For me, it is the tiny moments, like the little things, of watching Rob get an idea and scrawling it down on a post it note.  And there was the outlet of having a coffee or at a bar having a drink, or even just the way when we would wake up and he would stroke my hair and give me a kiss.  Just little, different things, really teeny, tiny moments of life, that just get lost.  I even found myself reading, I found, I thought I had lost it, but I am so, I am so glad that I found it, Rob’s old Hong Kong phone WhatsApp messages from life before, which is six years ago, and I know, I know it sounds ridiculous, but I sat and read them all, and it goes from when we met, to getting together, to moving in together, right up until that, the airport before we left for Sydney and everything changed.  And there was something so wonderful about just reconnecting with that, and so it does feel like yesterday, so I completely, like empathise with that, that process for you.

LH:  Yeah.

SC:  And I think it’s important, not that I live in the past a lot, but I think it’s important to have those snippets and to keep that memory alive if it gives you comfort. I know it’s not right for everybody, but it’s important for me to hold on to that. 

LH:  Yeah, I think, for me it’s important because, I want, I want my mum to always be remembered, but also, she also very much made me who I am.  And, without her I wouldn’t, I just wouldn’t be the same person.  And, I think for me, to, so I even remember, like the hard moments, even though they are, because it was such a short period of time, I find it easier to forget those things, but it’s really important to also remember those things.  Because, whilst they don’t reflect who my mum was, there are many elements that I went through that help me be a better person, to empathise with someone who necessarily, who is not necessarily going through the same thing, but is going through something difficult and for me to better approach that circumstance.  Especially today, where I feel like kindness is just so vital.

SC:  Yeah, Eden’s over it.  Kindness is so vital. 

LH:  And I know I did speak about, you know, closing off, erm, relationships earlier, and that might sound like an unkindness, but erm, there is so much, it’s really difficult for me, I don’t know what I am trying to, how, how I am trying to portray it, but basically, my mum taught me all about what generosity is, what kindness is, from that perspective.  And if I could, I know I’m making her sound like she was so incredible because she really, really was such a good-hearted person, and it is so very rare to come across someone that has so much to give.  And I know I am completely, completely biased, but if my mum gave you something that may your day better, then that was the kind of person that she was, she always had a smile.  And, even as an adult, I always looked forward to her coming home.  I mean, that, that’s how much she just made people happy.  And for me it’s important, like who she was, for that, for that very important lesson.  So that I can, I guess feel like I can always remember that I can be a better person.  Erm, and you know it is something that you have to work on always, but for my mother it just felt like it was effortless.  You know, I am not trying to say that she, that we didn’t have arguments or she didn’t get upset, but she kind of got upset in such a kind way that you just, you just wanted to laugh at her really.

SC:  She sounds like such a remarkable woman.  And in turn, as are you.

LH:  I don’t know.  I think it’s, it’s harder for me to live up to her legacy to be honest.  That’s what I find the hardest, because my mum, my mum just had such a good heart.  I am not trying to say that I don’t. I think, I think that’s something that comes with grief, isn’t it?

SC: It is, and the fact that you are like even questioning and thinking about the goodness, means that you do have a good heart.  You know, you’re striving to do better and be better, even though you already are.  I mean the fact that you are considering that most people don’t have that self-awareness, you know.

LH:  I think what it is…

SC:  I would give yourself a bit of a break. 

LH:  I think what it is that it’s like, you know, essentially what I want to, how I, I want to push forward erm is just to be happy and to make sure that if I can do something to give someone a break, or give someone a bit of kindness, then that’s essentially my mum living through me.  

SC:  And that is a really wonderful thing.  And what I, when helping Rob, when his mum died two years ago, in amongst everything, it has been really challenging, but the way I helped him obviously with his aphagia and cognitive awareness, I just had to try and help him understand somehow and try and get a handle on the real fierce emotions he was feeling. And I just had to remind him that like your heart is made from her heart, and I how it sounds quite simplified, but that really helped him stay grounded.  I don’t mean it to sound childish in any way, but holding on to that memory, that, like she is a part of you no matter what…

LH:  No, I think it’s true, especially when you are grieving a parent.  There are so many, you’ve only ever known the relationship as being a child, and it doesn’t matter that you grow into an adult child. That’s the one thing when you lose, when you lose a parent you lose, you lose that element of being a child.  There isn’t that care aspect that is given to you in quite the same respect as when you lose a parent that you are close to.

SC:  Yeah.

LH:  There is, like, you know. that’s what I miss.  And especially when I had Eden, the hardest bit was not coming home and being, like, “mum will you make me a cup of tea.” 

SC:  For me, the gurgles from that beautiful baby erm, is like the epitome of hope.  But what does hope mean, to you, or feel like to you.

LH:  I think hope is, I have thought about hope a lot in the last couple of years, because I am a very erm, optimistic person.  Even when mum was on her deathbed, I still thought that there could still be a way out.  I never lost that, kind of, erm, I never, I was very lucky that I never went into any kind of deep, dark, space whilst she was still here, and throughout, she, she guided us and kept us hopeful.  I think hope is again, part of kindness, they come hand in hand, don’t they?  And to wish for better things is not necessarily hope, because there are things that can make the day, erm, they make the moment, that, there are, I always try to, obviously I am lucky that I have the things that I have, the people that I have.  I have three wonderful children that I am very grateful for, erm and I think, hope is just being able to remind yourself of the good things that you do have and being able to hold on to that.

SC:  Yeah, absolutely.  I think hope is, I don’t know if you saw erm, the post that I wrote this past Sunday. It was talking about hope, because it is getting bandied around a lot at the moment, and obviously this podcast is hope personified, I guess.  But to me it’s a tangible, it’s not just a belief, it’s an action, in tandem with gratitude.  It’s erm, noticing everything you’ve got in your life and looking at all the good and the gold.

LH:  Yeah.

SC:  And even though there is some, I am not denying that there is struggle or there is pain but trying to seek what you are grateful for and then being lifted by that gratitude.  

LH:  Absolutely.

SC:  To see the potential and see the possibilities and trust that it’s going to be all right.

LH:  Yeah.  And I know that there are obviously certain privileges that come with being hopeful but I think it’s quite fair to say that so many of us are in this unprecedented, isn’t it?  We’re going through we’re all going through we are all going through this together for once in such a long, long time.  I don’t think any of us will every experience something quite this big that everyone is going through together, again in their lifetime.  Well, at least, I hope.  It’s being able to stand together and understand that ‘yes’ there are bad days and there are moments that we can’t necessarily understand why we feel that way that we feel, but we do have to embrace those moments too, and gratitude is, it is so integral to being hopeful.  You’re absolutely right.

SC:  And I think we have come to a very nice point for me to say thank you.  Not only for saying that but also for being part of this now.  

LH:  Thank you.

SC:  How wonderful was it to hear Laxmi’s voice and her experiences.  Yeah, I can’t believe that is the first time that we have spoken, and it was an honour to have you join us.  If you are interested to see some of Laxmi’s artwork, you can find her on Instagram.  That’s probably the best place to go and you can then follow any other leads from there.  And the handle is thislaxmi.  The pieces take on so much more depth and meaning after hearing this conversation and learning more about her experiences in life.  Thank you so much for listening.  Until next time, lots of love.