Lizzie Jordan Transcript

Hello, Welcome to Leaven. Today’s conversation is with Lizzie Jordan. Lizzie is simply one of the best humans I have the privilege of knowing. A powerhouse of love and honesty. She’s taken her experiences, pain and struggle, to turn them into a strong force of good. A decade on from a life changing diagnosis and it’s events, Lizzie is a sexual health advocate living with HIV, championing confident conversations for children, no matter how difficult or sensitive the topic. Recognising the issues faced by young people, Lizzie set up a social enterprise to provide resources, space and support to enable confident communication regardless of the topic. And as a regular on the BBC, all manner of radio and TV, I'm honoured to have Lizzie as a guest and to have her share her experiences and how she's made it through it all.

Here is Lizzie Jordan.

S: Hello you

LJ: Hello. How are you?

S: All the better for speaking to you on this sunny day, it's like I've got sunshine in my ears as well as here, because that’s what you are to me.

LJ: Well that’s rather nic

S: All true, full disclosure everybody, I know Lizzie.

LJ: That sounds ominous, i know you..

S: I know you. But Lizzie is a remarkable, remarkable woman and someone who I thought would be perfect to share her story. But for everybody who doesn’t know you, would you like to introduce yourself? Tell us what you do
LJ: Thank you. So back at you, in the whole loaded praise vibes. I’m Lizzie Jordan and I run a social enterprise based up in Lincolnshire and we specifically encourage people to have the conversations that many people find awkward. So we are the people that talk about sex, we talk about people dying, we talk about people, their gender and their sexuality and we support people to be able to have those conversations, the ones that are really important. And that all came about, my background originally, very similar to Syreeta, was in fashion, I studied fashion and then life took a very different path and long story short, that led to me setting up a social enterprise and being where I am right now, managing a team of people who are all amazing at what they do, supporting children, young people and their families across the UK.

S: And it's just phenomenal what you have achieved, especially over the last few years, as i've seen you go from, pretty much you working solo, to having an incredible team and working with people all over the country which is, I feel fiercely proud and i'm just honoured to know you. Because we have very different stories but then there's, like similarities in them as well because we actually met, well i ended up in Lincolnshire didn't we, and obviously i ended up there by default, it wasn’t my choice to end up there. And i started looking for different groups and networking sessions when i ended up there, when we moved, after Rob suffered his brain hemmorage, we ended up living with his parents and i couldn't find work and thought i'd have to set up on my own, but being in a city not knowing anybody, i was abit lost, but then we found each other through one of the networking events

LJ: It’s bonkers isn't it how life does that. So when would that have been, 2016?

S: I was thinking about that this morning, it was February 2016

LJ: Gosh

S: And then you kindly met me for a coffee, and 

LJ: And we’ve never left since

S: No, you can't get rid of me now

LJ: Although you did leave, you did leave me

S: Yeah technically, geographically i have left your side, metaphorically I'm not leaving, not going anywhere.

LJ: Definitely not

S: So the reason I shared that, is we connected through a shared experience of life happening to us, rather than for us. Would you mind sharing what was the catalyst for you relocating to Lincolnshire? and also being part of the reason for you setting up Think2Speak? 

LJ: Yeah of course. So my life used to feel a little bit like, i would say, an Eastenders episode, before life happened, i had a very privileged upbringing, i aced my degree in fashion, went off to London, had an amazing job, and fell pregnant and that was rather unexpected. So we came back to Lincolnshire initially for a year's maternity leave, that was the plan, never ever envisaged that Lincolnshire was going become home again, that’s where i grew up, i had no intention of living my life here, and so we came up here, baby was born, and life happened. So Jay, my not so little, little boy, his dad died very suddenly so he literally went into hospital, we thought maybe he had an infection or a stroke and by 3 days later he had died. So really sudden, very unexpected and I was early 20s, we had a tiny baby, and suddenly life looked very different, instead of being a family of 3, there were 2 of us. But then the shitty stick kept on giving, and we eventually found out that Reggie's death was related to AIDS and it was actually he had HIV and that had really impacted his immune system, so he died totally unaware that he was living with HIV and ultimately it killed him in a very sudden way, and so then i had to get tested, i was diagnosed with HIV, our baby had to get tested, by some absolute miracle, they were fine and are HIV negative. And so yeah, i was back in Lincolnshire with no plan of staying there but then how could i move, what could i do, there was not much of a fashion industry (laughing) where I live and i had alot to kind of get my head round, you know being given, what at the time i thought was a death sentence, the diagnosis, really isn't and i know that now, but you know getting my head round the fact that I was living with HIV, Jay no longer had daddy, and that it was the 2 of us trying to work out what on earth we were going to do with our lives, meant the proverbial table was definitely flipped upside down.

S: Regardless of the fact that i know your story, i know you, it just, it sucker punches me every time i hear it, just to, all of that change, the wild emotions that you're suffering. You suffer with grief and a loss anyway and then to have a diagnosis within that, is just intense, I'm in awe of how you've not only carried on and made your way through, but you are forging a way forward, which is just incredible really. 

LJ: I think you don't have a choice, and i think actually, and i know we've chatted before, about although i wouldn't wish the experiences on anybody, the privileges and inside that those things happening when they did, in my early 20s, have actually, and i repeat wouldn't wish them on anybody, have actually made my life so much richer and my outlook on life, and my respect for everything, you know, for people, for their experiences, for the wonders of the world, the simplicity, as corny as it sounds, those simple things that so many people just take for granted, and often it takes someone, and i'm generalizing massively, but to alot later in life before they recognise how, what is important and don't sweat the small stuff and all that stuff, then actually by having life experiences that you know we've both had, and having to suddenly change, pivot, whatever, but when life happens to you and you literally have to go, right this is all change, this is all pivot, through no choice of your own, there is a certain, you know, it's a phenomenal experience that actually although I wouldn't wish on anybody, I also wouldn't change it. 

S: Yeah. I totally agree with you like, there's almost gold within the pain and it's like a gift that although it's unwanted at first and you can't see it straight away, there is growth and beauty within it all as well, for sure.

LJ: Yeah without a doubt

S: Obviously there is alot of distance from that now, I mean, Jay’s a flourishing teenager.

LJ: I know, he’ll be 16 in February, 16!

S: Goodness me. And so you do have, that distance from it and have the ability to look back, but i want to know, how did you get through, cos for us it was very much taking it minute by minute, day by day 

LJ: Definitely, definitely. 

S: Could that have been the same process for you?

LJ: Yeah I literally, I don't know looking back is this a trauma response, literally had to become minute by minute, then it became day by day, then it became week by week and it took a long long long time before that would change, and before i was able to even consider the future, consider any kind of longevity of anything. Everything seemed to be, you know, unless it was needed to be infront of me for the next few minutes, nothing else, my bubble became very very tight, very very small and that's all I could cope with. So literally, Jay was my saving grace and if I didn't have to get up and get busy doing what they needed, and ensure they had everything they needed, then that was about all I could cope with, and that was fine, I was a ok with that. Just literally, minute by minute and then gradually through time that became, through alot of therapeutic work, a lot of asking for help and acknowledging that i couldn't do this all on my own, i needed help, i needed support, i needed to talk to other people. Huge buckets of peer support, the most valuable thing i think that’s so I underestimated, particularly with health care, was just the most vital component to then enable me to actually look up rather than just constantly fire fighting and looking down, looking at my feet so to speak.

S: And once you got through, those really dark stages, things started to get a little bit lighter.

LJ: So quite quickly, i recognised that i really wanted to meet other people, wanted to talk to other people who experienced stuff like this, that had received a HIV diagnosis, that you know, that had like minded, had similar experiences. And so quite swiftly i started to reach out and go talk to people and try to find people and in the way that in, you know, people bring us together, fate is a funny thing, but i do think people come together for a reason and you and I sat and had that coffee that day for a reason and that’s a whole other thing.

But the actual reaching out and meeting other people, and then what i started to see was that there were very very few, white women who were willing to say ‘you know what, i'm living with HIV, i'm here and i'm living with HIV’.  So i went to a support group, and you had to go up the stairs, and at the top of the stairs there was the receptionist and there was a sign to the gay mens group one way, and the african womens group the other way, and i said ‘ok, where should i go?’ And she went ‘oh um, yeah well, we’d have to ask both of those groups if you were able to join them, so maybe you can just wait here and wait and see.’ And i was like ‘What ,so wait till someone who looks like me, arrives, like that's abit bizarre ‘

S: Wow, and the fact that's so siloud as well

LJ: Oh god, it was ridiculous, and i totally appreciate why groups for specific, very marginalised communities, why they exist, however, i just wanted to meet someone, i just want to sit and have a coffee, and chat with someone, that's all i was looking for. So off i went. But through that then, that group got in touch with me a couple of months later, saying ‘we've had the BBC get in touch and they’re making this documentary and they're trying to find a white woman that's willing to speak to them about living with HIV’, and i was like, ‘sure i’ll speak to them’. They’re like ‘you seem pretty confident and articulate, so would you mind’. And that was the kind of tipping point of me being very publicly living with HIV because it was, in the end, it was a documentary with Stephen Fry, so that broadcast at prime time BBC1 and that sort of started my journey about speaking publicly, out and about, living with HIV, being a single parent, and all of that stuff that that entails. And that really really gave me, not necessarily a new identity but it gave me a purpose almost, it gave me real hope to actually, i'm not, I wasn't totally altruistic, if that's the right word ,but i got so much from it as well, that by speaking out and being open and enabling others to learn and to recognise that actually this is going to be ok, it massively benefitted me too so since then i've done lots and lots of stuff around the world with speaking out publicly about living with HIV and our families experiences of that, what that’s like.

S: And that’s incredible, because like we mentioned, the gift and the gold is in your pain, it’s like you've taken that and not only are you using it for yourself, you are giving and oh my, do you give…(laugh) you are sharing so openly and so deeply about your life and you’re right, it is, especially within the HIV community, it is quite rare for a white woman to stand up and be proud of talking about her diagnosis. It feels like you are holding a space for not only for other white women, but for everyone really to have those conversations and i love that that was the catalyst for then, not only for you to heal and find your purpose but you’ve now created that to a bigger wider thing, within Think2Speak within your social enterprise and you've spoken at the House of Lords for the Terrence Higgins Trust, you’ve met Harry and Meghan, is that right?

LJ: Prince William [inaudible] Jay was very cool and calm about that. I was not so cool and calm (laughing)

S: And you’ve also been recognised by lots of different public bodies, like Natwest Top 100 of Wise Women, but how does that feel to be so open and out in the public eye, does it ever feel conflicting?

LJ: I am me at the end of the day, i can’t do the whole, i was doing something earlier this morning and people were saying about people’s home life and then their life at work, and I was like we’re human beings ,we can't compartmentalize chunks of your identity, or your life, i just don't see that, and i don’t, we don’t manage our team that way, we are people and that means sometimes your mum hat comes to the force, sometimes your activist hat is on front and centre, sometimes that goes to the back because actually other things are more important and we’ve all got these different facets of our lives and mine are, I am very public about the highs and lows of my life and the experiences that i’ve had and i wouldn’t change it, and i couldn't change it, there'd be a hell of alot of stuff I’d have to get google to remove. But you know, for everything that I share, or I talk about or you know, that kid that comes up to me after doing a session in a school, it's those things that really power me on. You know, its great the certificates, a chunk of crystal with something extra on it, it's lovely and great but what actually gets me going is like the kid that comes up to me and is like ‘oh my god, my mum this or my dad this’. They ask that question that they’ve never dared to ask anybody, that's what really gets me going,ok, that makes a difference because for that one person being able to ask that question and being able to be signposted, that's the change and that’s the difference and that’s what keeps me going and fires me. As lovely as accolades and awards are. 

S: I hear you, the reason I ask is mainly for people listening, because I wholeheartedly agree with you that, we're all human and I think what this pandemic and this strange time has brought to light is that we, there’s no reason to hide it now. We are all complex people with home lives, with parents who need to be looked after, with children with additional needs potentially, someone’s got sick, these aren't things that should be in the shadows, these are the things that make us who we are, make us real, and long may it continue that we have the opportunity if we wish to share, that it’s not a place of judgement, for having these things going on. And yeah, our stories matter, I think one thing that i've recognised is that we’ve lost that village kind of mentality, more so as i've noticed it becoming a mother, but i really did notice it and feel isolated when everything happened with Rob, is that by not talking, not sharing, not having that unconditional support and love around you, it's incredibly lonely and it’s harder to get through things.

LJ: Without a doubt, without a doubt

S: And you know, that’s what i love about what you’ve created with Think2Speak that it does feel like your creating, like the safe space, the village mentality, recognising that there are conversations that need to be had especially, what's remarkable is you were a grieving mother and dealing with a grieving child and you are now supporting schools to have those conversation and how to best support children going through things like that.

LJ: A great example of that is the thing that i am proudest of our group called HodgePodge which supports trans and gender diverse kids and that came about from, we had 2 families who approached us staying, ok we've got trans kids, in Lincolnshire, we just want to meet some others. They desperately needed that safe space to come together to socialize and to meet other kids and since then the group’s grown and grown and grown and that creation of that safe space and, one of the kids, it was their birthday and they said that they saved their cake as they wanted it with their HodgePodge family.

S: Aw that’s lovely

LJ: I know, they’d found, they’d never met another trans kid until they came to the group and they really found that community and their village, so to speak. And that’s, it’s moved online really well. Wo during covid, obviously they couldn't all get together, so it's moved online, so we have a parents group on Zoom and that's a little bit later and it's more adult in what we talk about, and then we have a group for kids. Our last group, they had a halloween party, we posted them all packs and they all had their party in their own houses via Zoom and it's just phenomenal to see how powerful and how rich like-minded experiences and story sharing can be when it's facilitated. And also moving to digital has meant we've been able to, we've got families from across the country now who are able to join as it's not just a face to face thing in rural Lincolnshire. So that's been a real, good thing about these last few months, enabled us to reach families much much further afield than we would have done before which is amazing.

S: It is indeed. And what we all need now more than ever, regardless what you’ve going, we all need to hear stories and feel connected and feel part of something, like we belong. 

LJ: Very much so

S: Cos that's what it all boils down to really doesn't it

LJ: Yeah, and having someone to turn to, someone to ask, someone to, just knowing that that is there for you is just, you’re rich beyond measure if you’ve got that and i know that’s coming from a very privileged position but it is so massive just to know that somebody’s there on the end of the phone, end of a message, to be able to connect with someone.

S: And to know that you matter.

LJ: Yeah exactly

S: Yeah, and again not just for adults but for children going through this time as well and feeling the disparity of experiences, i think it's more important than ever that everyone knows that they matter. 

So I'm guessing my next question to you would be, leading from that, it feels like it's a good time to ask, what does hope mean to you? What does it feel like to you?

LJ: Hope is such a big word isn't it, and sometimes I think it's such a big word and actually it’s so simplistic at the same time. Hope to me is that simple action, kind of like visualising myself doing it, is being able to look up, look out and take a deep breath. And that to me is what hope is all about because actually, when you're not in a place where you are able to consider the future, consider the brightness that is beyond, the joy in something; whether that's being present in the moment, or looking to the future, when you’re not able to do those things and you’re often, maybe reflect on the past or being fearful of the future; but actually when you have hope and you are able to be present and centre and look up and go ok, today has already started and it's sunny, the beautiful blue skies, that hope and consideration of being able to take a real deep breath and look out and look up, and consider that you are so much more and there is so much more, whether that be opportunity, whether that be whatever it is you want to be bountiful in; that opportunities is there and you might not have all the answers of knowing. You might not have a plan or how that's going to become real or whatever, but actually even being able to look up and look out and consider that there’s something brighter on the horizon. That to me is what hope is all about and i think, i’m no miracle woman, i sometimes, i am looking down at my feet and i cannot deal with anything beyond and that can be a very dark, isolated place but i think, i really know how important it is to be able to look up and look out and really hope for brighter things, whatever that may mean to you

S: It helps to know that when you do look up and look out and you're not sure what's before you, that's where the feeling like you belong and you matter comes in to play i feel

LJ: Exactly

S: It’s like you know there's a safety net or if you try and you fall, that someone will be there to hear you or pick you up or to support you and give you what you need so i think, it is a very loaded word, and it's a combination of tangible things not just a belief, and a feeling and an emotion, it’s a combination of factors. It's just really powerful to hear you speak outside of just our usual chit chat (laughing) It’s really lovely, thank you.

LJ: Thank you.

S: So you’ve touched on it briefly, but within all this, i know you haven't really changed as a person but then i'm sure there’ve been elements that have changed you along the journey of love and loss and then creativity and what you’ve created with your social enterprise brand. How have you stayed true, how have you stayed centred and grounded throughout all of this

LJ: That’s a really good question, it's really interesting as people grow and as people change do they change, or are they just ageing, or whatever, but i think for me i, as i've said before, i grew up in a very privileged life, and i had literally zero cares, zero worries and i was off for a good time and i sailed through uni and i loved it, and i had part time job, and i had an amazing set of friends and i lived for 3 years, i lived in an 8 bedroom house with 7 other boys so i was like the queen mum of the house

S: I love that (laughing)

LJ: Absolutely loved that, they were just the best people and they’re all off around the world right now which is so cool, and so i just had such a lovely network of people and whatever and so when i, that was in Birmingham, and i traipsed off to London, and life was on the veneer. It was that lovely lovely thing and i thought i was ace in the world and i thought i was worldly and i know all of the stuff, and then obviously life happened and now i think gosh, not only what i didn't know, but also how, not necessary arrogant, but i just did not appreciate, i didn't recognise the privileges that i had and my very sheltered view of the world, my eyes have been truly opened. Particularly my HIV diagnosis has enabled me to meet people from literally every corner of the planet and the real privilege of hearing their stories and their experiences and the marginalisation and discrimination and all of those things that can lead to people being othered and really experiencing stigma and deprivation and the real warts and all of life. And my experiences have enabled me to really empathise with that and use the privilege that i have of being an articulate white woman to enable other people to activate their voices and enable them to, if i can share that platform, if I can enable them to be able to take it instead, then that's what we need to do. I think now, it's only now I can reflect and realise how much I didn't know and what was important and what I now value is so so different. When i was growing up, the things and aspiration that i used to chase, versus now, what i view as being important and what i put front and centre has changed so massively. And i don't know, is that because of what happened or is that actually, that’s how people grow up and mature

(laughing)

S:Probably abit of everything i guess

LJ: I think so yeah

S: I think alot of us will relate to that, i know that i have changed massively from my early 20’s, i was quite an arrogant angry person, i had certain privileges but came more from a working class background, but my mum and dad pushed us educationally, to be up, pushed us up and out and that became my way out into the world. But I was actually thinking about it this morning when I was thinking about how we were going to be speaking to each other. Gosh, like what i didn't know. I thought I knew it all, I thought I knew it all, sat in Manchester as a 20 year old thinking that I knew how it all worked and I knew nothing, I knew nothing. (laughing) What i thought was important to me just doesn't matter anymore

LJ: No exactly and that's one of things i find really interesting when we do work with young people, or just when, ‘younger people’ making me sound like i’m geriatric which i'm really not, i have a huge privilege of being youthful being some 40, but the privilege and insight that, again as life experiences have given us and almost the wisdom that comes with that of what is important and what isn’t, it really makes me chuckle when particularly when i hear, like younger minded people sweating about stuff and you just think wow, like wow (laugh)

S: Yeah it doesn't matter

LJ: Really! But yeah, each to their own, we’re all individual and we have to celebrate that

S: I do think you’re right, having something happen to you, regardless of what you’re going through but some thing that is a catalyst to instigate change or to instigate some inner reflection, is where the shift happens i think, for sure

LJ: Without a doubt, without a doubt

S: And then, the beauty of distance from whatever that situation may be, with growing older i guess. There's not that sense of urgency. I'm going to mention Fleabag here because what I loved about that was that she was depicting an angry young woman, and I don't think there are enough examples of what that stage of life feels like. Not to say i was Fleabag exactly, but that was my kind of life.

LJ: I’ve been told by quite a few people, that I remind them..so i might skirt over that one. 

(laughing)

It does make me chuckle, when people are like, yeah that's kind of you, i'm like oh ok but a compliment I don’t really know. (laughing)

S: I guess that's another thing that we don't talk about, that women can be angry

LJ: Exactly

S: Within that it’s layers of anxiety and fear and all these emotions that are mixed up, and this is what i think is brilliant is that you talk about these things with 6th formers, you go into schools, you have sexual health conversations, but you also have the emotive conversations as well

LJ: In schools they teach relationships and sex education, and you can’t put the sex education before the relationships bit. Relationships are all built on being able to communicate with each other, you don't get anywhere in the relationship unless you are able to communicate and express whatever it might be. So the work that i do around, particularly around in HIV sessions, schools will often teach HIV in the science way, here is a virus, this is how a virus replicated, that’s all well and good and it might give you some marks in the exam paper for science, but it's not going to help your relationship or help you stay HIV negative or empower you to have a conversation about sexual health. The education system is a whole other subject but its really flawed in that way, and what do we actually want young people to have, and for me is that they're armed with those tools to be able to talk about what’s important, so whether that is being able to approach somebody respectfully because they want to talk to them, whatever that may lead to or what they want it to lead to, that they’re able to initiate that conversation that they’re able to equally say, i'm really uncomfortable and actually this has to end , and i think that's a skill that particularly for women we’re not taught, it's not drummed into us. School particularly are very much based on compliance and you have to conform, you have to do as you’re told and you’re not rewarded for saying no. And actually, if you start looking at consent and a much wider conversation, the whole, being able to express ‘No, i don't want this, i don't want to do this, i don't want to have this experience’ or whatever, i think actually that has a huge power and responsibility for actually later in life, where lots of young people, myself included, are really angry as they’ve been brought up in a society, in a world where they’re expected to conform and comply and agree. And being able to stand up and say ‘no this isn't what i want, this is what i want’ and be respected for that and be empowered to do that, is totally at odds with everything that when we were growing up, the world was telling us, and i think that leads to alot of people being very very angry with where they're at and what’s expected of them

S: Absolutely, I relate to that very deeply. How we navigate this new generation who do have, you're encouraging those open conversations and that communication and I've witnessed it with your son, you have this incredible relationship with boundaries but you are incredibly close and I do think it's down to the communication that you’ve established. Would you say that's been part of, obviously you’ve been bonding through your life experiences together, would you feel communication is absolutely key between parent and child relationship?

LJ: Without a doubt, yeah, I acknowledge that single parent families,  Jay and i are very very close, we are a package and we come together. And that’s been the way through all of Jay’s life, that's always how it's been and every experience and opportunity that i've been afforded with, if i am able to involve him with that then i have done. We don't have, you know, ‘that’s a grown up conversion’, or ‘that’s off the table’, there is literally nothing and Jay would probably cringe to high heaven, there's literally nothing we don't talk about or we can’t talk about and whether that be, sometimes we have really big conversations where we head off in the car and it means, we don't have to have eye contact and we’re chatting away, and sometimes that's where great conversations happen. And sometimes it's the really small stuff, and you can just sit and be vulnerable and share, i've always chosen to be open and honest with Jay, i've never, with my HIV diagnosis, they knew that from being very very little, that it started off with, we used to say mummy having bugs in her blood and at that time i wasn't on medication so i was infectious and now i'm on medication so i'm not infectious, but when Jay was smaller i would have been infectious, so we used to say i had bugs in my bloods and that was using terminology and language that Jay was able to understand and not be fearful and also to not feel any shame. I never wanted there to be some big reveal or whatever, i've always chosen to parent very very openly and to share, and talk about what is, what’s going on, for good and for bad and being really very open about that. I really really would not change that and it's very different to how i grew up, how i was parented as a child. But that is what comes naturally to me, that is how i’ve chosen, but I think actually that’s just naturally how parenting has come to me, and life experiences have enabled me and i’ve chosen that way of being.

S: And it's beautiful to see.

LJ: Ahhhhh

S: It is

LJ: I’m slightly biased

(laughin)

S: I cannot wait till we can see you both again in real life

LJ: Oh i know.

Jay’s going to be like, it's going to be fascinating to see what he goes on to do. He wants to do politics, economics and philosophy and i just know he’s going to be like some massive changemaker of the future, whatever he chooses to do and it will have to be of his choosing, he won't do anything that’s not of this choosing, it will be really phenomenal to see where he ends up and what he does

S: To even know already at 16 that that's what you want to do. I have no doubt that Jay will change the world one day

LJ: Yes, yeah (laughing) No pressure Jay if you’re listening.

As long as he’s happy, that’s all I care about, if you’re happy that's all that matter

S: That is all that matters. There is one thing that I wanted to ask if you wouldn't mind sharing, is that you’ve talked about your diagnosis, and how that you’re not infectious if that's the right terminology - can you share how that works? Because obviously it's still a subject that not many people have an everyday awareness of and i think it's really important to be able to share that whilst you're here

LJ: Yeah of course. I take medication daily, for me that’s one tablet, and I will continue to take that for the rest of my life. Unless there’s some magic miracle in science but right now a tablet a day and that ensures that the virus, the level of virus in my blood is undetectable so that when they look, under a microscope they can't see the virus. It doesn't mean somebody is cured, you still have the virus, the virus is still in your body but it’s at such a low level that it means that the virus is 1- not attacking your immune system but it also means you’re not infectious. By being undetectable it's untransmissable, so through sexual contact you can't pass HIV on, which is massive news because it's not that long ago when people living with HIV were really feared and well, to be honest they still are, but the power of the medication nowadays really does mean that people living with HIV can live a near normal life span and not be infectious to their sexual partners and that’s massive news.

S: That’s huge yeah

LJ: That's the main thing it really is

S: And thank you for sharing that, the more people who hear that, that it is ok, it's not this thing that should be feared at all, as long as you’re educated about the situation, and you take precaution.

LJ: And there are lots of options out there, so if you’re living with HIV taking daily medication means that you won't pass the virus on but equally if you're not living with HIV and your HIV negative, be proactive and looking after your sexual health is to me it's a no brainer, but that's the benefit of hindsight. We look after our teeth, because we don't’ want our breath to smell, we don't want our teeth to look bad so you go to the dentist. We know that’s responsible and yet our sexual health and accessing sexual health services is viewed so differently and it's almost the stigma, that i'm sexually active, oh my goodness, really? We’re grown ups? Come up let’s get with the realities of today and actually going to a sexual health clinic and being proactive of getting yourself screened, getting yourself checked, ideally before any new partner, but also with an existing partner. It's great to be proactive with looking after it, seeing what options are there for you and there's lots of preventative stuff and there’s also lots of treatment available and we are so lucky here in the UK to have the NHS and sexual health services are provided free of charge, HIV medication is provided free of charge, sexual health treatments are provided free of charge, so if we can all just be grown ups and go and access these services and proactively look after our health, not only are we saving the NHS huge amounts of money in the long run, because they don't have to then look after you for the rest of your life but also its just a really good grown up thing to do.  To ensure you are healthy, that you too can live a really long life. Just be a grown up and go to a sexual health clinic. It's really not that difficult, if you just google `my local sexual health clinic`, so many of them pop up and they are still open through covid, they are still seeing people, they still want to see people, so please do reach out.

S: What a message that is. Thank you for sharing Lizzie

LJ: You're so welcome it's been an absolute privilege, it's been lovely nattering to you

S: I hope i’ve done you’re story justice, my love

LJ: Who's going to interview you, that's going to be a big job, turn the table.

S: I hadn’t thought about that one, maybe you could do it, if you’re up for it (laughing)

There’s alot in there that I think is really important for people to hear so thank you

LJ: You are so very welcome, thank you for having me

S: So where can people find you if they want to find out more about the social enterprise and the work you do there, its think2speak.com 

LJ: That’s right, and my social handles are iamlizziejordan, you can find me on twitter and instagram with those

S: Thank you for joining us and I hope you enjoyed hearing from Lizzie. If you’ve been impacted by any of the topics covered today and have a child in your life that may well benefit from support from Lizzie’s website Think2Speak is a good place to start. Alongside that for any sexual health support, with HIv, the Terrence Higgins trust is a fantastic space for over 18s. Thank you for listening, until next time. Lots of love.