Sara Tasker Transcript

Hello. Welcome to Leaven. Today’s conversation is with Sara Tasker. Sara is an award winning multi-talented creative, behind the Instagram account meandorla. Many of you may know her already through that account, or her own podcast Hashtag Authentic or perhaps even the book of the same name. Sara’s work evolved from a photography project she started whilst on maternity leave and has flourished into a layered business encompassing writing, online courses and coaching that works around her health and family needs. Her work is regularly featured by press such as the Guardian, BBC, Radio 4, Silas Magazine and she was named content creator of the year. Sara has also lightly touched on her experience on living with long term health conditions, on her own platforms, so i'm delighted that she’s joined me to share her story and reality with us. Sara conveys her day to day and how a diagnosis late in life, of dysautonomia, has shaped her world and how success and work in life can look different than the society we are surrounded by. Here is Sara Tasker.

S: Hi Sara

ST: Hello, my love how are you doing?

S: I'm very well thank you, on this grey day and things with you?

ST: Equally grey, but equally well (laughing)

S: It's so lovely to have you today, cos I know that you’re a seasoned pro with your own podcast, so it feels like such an honour to have your time today. Many of us know you through Instagram, but for those who aren’t on social media, would you mind telling us about yourself and what you do?

ST: Sure so, I always forget something when i go through this speel, because it all feels so fragmented when i first introduce it. My name’s Sara Tasker and my online brand is called meandorla, which is me and my daughter. It started just as a creative outlet, i was on maternity leave and that was an instagram account and that has gradually evolved to encompass lots of other elements. So now my main business is to teach people how to use social media online, how to tell their story and find their people and usually to find themselves along the way as well. I wrote a book called Hashtag Authentic all about Instagram, I have a podcast that’s also called HashTag Authentic. I’m a photographer, I'm a writer, that’s kind of where my roots are and I recently over the course of this year trained as a life coach as well.

S: Wow

ST: Just to add something in there, you know (laughing)

S: The most multi-faceted woman there is. One of many talents, I mean it's incredible because this all started from you being on maternity leave just using an app. I mean has it surprised you how it's flourished and led you to where you are now?

ST: Yeah, at every turn it has blown my mind. But there’s also always i think, a tiny little gem of self belief in there that thought ‘i think i can do stuff, i think i can make things happen’ but was always very quickly shouted down by the rest of my brain and my life experiences and all the people in my life who didnt think i could be anything or do anything. And so starting with that app and starting with just finding other people who cared about what i had to say, or what i was sharing, kind of slowly and tentatively gave me permission to say, ‘i wonder if i could do something else’ and trying the next thing and the next thing. So it has completely surprised me and every single time I'm like ‘how is this true, how is this my life!’. But at the same time, i think somewhere deep down i always knew that all of this was possible for all of us.

S: Ooh that inner knowing, it's kind of that knowing and not knowing but just trying but deep down somewhere there is that whisper going ‘ yeah you can’

ST: Yeah and I think I thought that was just delusion for a long time ‘don't listen to that voice’ that voice is crazy but it turns out she’s right so i’m getting alot better at tuning her in

S: Yeah, how do you tune in?

ST: Yeah I think it comes with practice. I always say, the first 30 years of my life were spent trying to tune her out and drown her out and get rid of, I think that’s what the system does, education and the work system, everything we’re taught is about ignoring your intuition and following the rules. And then, when I had my daughter, I turned 30, something changed in me and that was when I started reconnecting with who I actually was. The more you listen, the faster you can hear what you really think, deep down inside.

S: Yes, yes. All of those things. I can relate so much, all these labels that kind of get put upon us as we are playing the system, as we have to. To kind of conform, to get through the traditional patriarchal system

ST: Absolutely. Just you’re busy all of the time, so there's no time to hear yourself think and you’re constantly supposed to be socializing and working 9-5, doing all the things and sending 200 christmas cards and `make sure your always hungry cos you don't want to gain weight`. The list just goes on and on and on so it's no wonder that most of us, kind of lose that connection to our real selves, because there's just so much piled on top of it

S: And also how incredible that it was motherhood, that kind of gave you that opportunity to step off the rat race so to speak and to reconnect. Cos i think, only having recently become a mum myself, i can understand that now. Because there's something quite primal and guttural that you go through, like physically but also mentally and it's almost like a healing journey in itself becoming a mum, you reset too, you’re still you but you become this new person that has to provide and really consider someone else.

ST: 100%. I feel like giving birth and having a baby broke me. And then I rebuilt myself.

S: That’s a good way of putting it

ST: Not to scare anyone

S: And metaphorically

ST: I’m sure that's not everyone’s experience, but that was the experience I created for myself.

S: Well, do you know what I don't think enough of us do talk about that experience, you know, there's all this, kind of again, because of the system, it's changing a little bit now with the honesty that is portrayed on social media. But i don't think enough of us talk about the dark side of the evolution of motherhood but perhaps that's another conversation.

ST: There’s a whole episode we need to pencil that one in

S: So i guess, becoming a mum and motherhood was a catalyst for you evolving into working for yourself but what was your professional career like before? Did that inform any of your decisions now?

ST: I think on paper it sounds completely unrelated. So i was working for the NHS in speech therapy and i’d had a couple of specialisms, i worked in early years, and i mainly was involved with children who were pre a diagnosis of autism. So they were eventually going to go through the system and have that and we already had suspicions and so i was the one involved with those children. And then later i started to work in special schools, particularly secondary age special schools so children aged 11-19 who were on the whole range of learning and physical disabilities and my role again was just to help them communicate in whatever way that meant for them. So some of them were non-verbal and were never going to be able to speak verbally. So it was kind of finding other ways for them to communicate, and some of them were verbal and it was helping them to make the most of their skills there. And I loved it. I absolutely loved it, i still love it ,but this hobby that started on my maternity leave, started to gain traction and it challenged me in ways that my work for the NHS just didn't and couldn't anymore and there came this kind of point that actually i need to see where this will go and make that leap. And actually what i found is, it's still all about communication and i think if i hadn't had that really strong root in human communication and finding like, the heart of the message, the heart of the thing you want to get out of your brain and into the other person's brain or vice versa, that is the thing that you can bring to any communication and that's what makes an instagram caption compelling, or that’s what makes a tweet work, or that’s what makes a podcast interesting to listen to. It’s that core essence that you’re trying to communicate

S: And a powerful communicator you are, not just through your words but visually as well, it's incredibly powerful the way that you convey beauty and simplicity in every day, today circumstances.

ST: Thank you, i think i’m waffling alot today so that’s kind of ironic. But one of the systems we used in school was symbol software. So for children who couldn’t read, i say children, they were young people, they couldn't read written words, you could still write out a document with symbols. And so i think in symbols and in pictures alot still, how do i say what i want to say visually, cos that is a language we all speak, no-one really has to teach us that, and it crosses all the language barriers, it crosses alot of the learning barriers, like if you can see, if you can take in a picture, you can feel and you can get the message without any language being needed.

S: Oh my goodness, and that makes me tingle because obviously we’ve got a connection through that experience, from how Rob and I communicated through drawing and how we still communicate. I mean I woke up to a list, a to do list from Rob this morning which was all doodles (laughing). And I can relate to that so much, obviously being a creative myself, having studied and worked within the creative fields, I am a very visual visceral person and that’s then informed me to be able to communicate with Rob when he lost all his verbal communication and reading and writing. So i'm in awe of that aspect of your work and i think that’s how we connected originally, cos we have met before and i’ve had the honour of being a guest on your podcast, so that’s how we know each other and able to speak today. But I love that synchronicity of the way our minds have worked and followed a guttural instinct towards communication.

ST: Yeah, and that first time we met it was in like a barn, wasn’t it, somewhere down south in the middle of winter and you were telling me about your story and about Rob and straight away my brain was like ‘how do you guys communicate? Does he have a communication aid? I was just so excited to hear about how you would make this work because it is fascinating and beautiful and it's just, it's so full of humanity, the way that we find a way to overcome barriers and keep communicating. And so that's where my love of the internet comes from as well, it's like look at how amazing and creative humans are to find ways to keep communicating.

S: Absolutely, for all the negativity that surrounds the internet, there is such a force of good within there as well. And a big part of your work involves the online community, they bring your projects to fruition and thrive because without that community and feedback there wouldn’t be that evolution of the brand and things that you’ve created. How do you manage that sense of responsibility?

ST: Ok so just to be clear, I'm not responsible for the internet in case anyone’s listening (laughing) don’t write to me with your complaints. But it is a responsibility, absolutely right, and i think it is more like it's my responsibility to the people who are watching and listening and wanting to learn from me because i’m still a very flawed, learning, evolving human

S: Of course

ST: And the fear of showing up wrong, saying the wrong thing, hurting somebody, is always every present with me because we’re all capable of it, and we all have our blind spots and that’s always going to be a work in progress. For me, the motivation that gets me past that and keeps me showing up and keeps me trying is just the absolute belief and it's my own first hand experience that we all have a voice and we all deserve to be heard. And that is what is so amazing about the internet, is we are now hearing from people from all areas of life, from all types of experience, so many marginalised voices that previously were just never given a space, a platform, and if my work can help more people access that and find the courage and the confidence and the support and the audience then i have to keep showing up because that’s my part in this big picture.

S: And show up you do. And despite you yourself going through personal challenges, some of which you share on your platform, there is something to do with your day to day that impacts your health and sometimes impacts your ability to show up in that way. Would you mind sharing with us as you’ve recently received a diagnosis too about what’s affected your work and how you’ve forged a way through?

ST: Yeah so i have something called dysautonomia which is dysregulation of the autonomic nervous system and that is everything your body does automatically, so like blood pressure, your heart rate, your digestion, your temperature, pretty much everything you don’t have to think about that your body just does. My body kind of just goes its own way and does its own thing with all of those. And like any neurological condition, every day is different so it's really difficult to predict how my health is going to be one day from the next. The main, most impactful symptom that i have struggled with is excessive daytime sleepiness and fatigue. So that is the best way i can describe it, its like imagine someone shoots you with a tranquilizer dart, you know when you see it, they shoot a lion at the zoo cos it needs some emergency surgery and the lion fights it, and its trying to walk around, its trying to stay awake but you know that the crash is inevitable and its going to fall asleep, and that is my experience of this excessive daytime sleepiness. I’ve had it for years, i think it started in my teens really, looking back, gradually increasing and getting worse and getting less and less manageable. And when I was working for the NHS there were alot of emergency naps in supply cupboards and in my car between appointments, but really struggle to be taken seriously with that because of course we’re all tired. You go to your doctor, and you say ‘i keep falling asleep’ and they say ‘yeah we’re all tired, you know, have some coffee’. So I didn't get a diagnosis until I was, I think, about 34 so only a few years ago. So in terms of my working life, the biggest thing is just not knowing if i will be able to fulfill my obligations for the day because i really don’t know if i'm going to be able to stay awake and if i am awake is my brain going to be clear enough to put a coherent sentence together. And people don’t understand that. People really struggle cos they think that means you’re a flake, you’re not reliable and the world is not set up for variable health conditions.

S: It really isn't, is it. I mean, obviously wildly different experiences, but obviously i'm aware of what fatigue can be like and neurological fatigue is, it's so hard to explain cos people think ‘oh yeah, you’re just tired’ or ‘yeah i’m shattered’. But it is debilitating. Rob suffers with it because of his stroke and obviously different circumstances but that inability to function and stay awake it means that you have to power down, there is no way you can forge your way through. And there really isn’t that understanding outside of or in the world of office work, and flexibility of ‘oh yes, this someone could be wildly talented but may need support through their day to day to do xyz’. I mean look at even maternity leave, they won't even allow the flexibility there to a certain extent

ST: Completely

S: There just isn't that space of humanity and understanding that, alot of people are going through stuff. And need that support and i think the more awareness and the more we talk about these situations, the more understanding hopefully there’ll be, to be able to accommodate that

ST: You are 100% correct. And its one of those things where really, the system is what makes you disabled rather than the limitations of your health. Because if the system could just accommodate all of the differences and make space for everybody to be different then actually there’s so much more everybody could do. And so for me its just things like, you know, a company that im working with, will think nothing of saying ‘of yeah we need a 4 o’clock zoom meeting’ 4o’clock! It’s is very rare that i'm awake at 4o’clock at the moment. How do you say that to a CEO of a big company ‘oh sorry, i’ll be asleep’. I’d love to say that you can just say it and it will be accepted but it really does change your credibility and how people perceive you and i’ve had alot of internal struggle with that because of course they’re not just external opinions. If I'm really honest, i've had those opinions about myself. Until i had the diagnosis i think i really just believed maybe i was just horribly lazy.

S: Oh my goodness, my love

ST: I think that’s really common especially with these conditions, I really feel for people with chronic fatigue syndrome because that is one you can't prove in the doctor’s office. It's a diagnosis of elimination and even now, there are days where i think, am i just not trying hard enough? Could I just force myself out of this? And meanwhile my feet have swollen up, because the blood’s pooled up in the bottom half of my body and there are visible signs and even then, i'm still like maybe i just need to try harder. And i really have to have a talk with myself because i think we’re just so conditioned to measure our worth by productivity and when you’re productivity is limited by your body, it's easy to kind of turn on your own body and resent it for that

S: My goodness and you know, isn't it just awful how much we absorb of those negative opinions and create those into our inner critic.

ST: Completely. In fact I can remember, I don't think i’ve ever told anyone this before. So when i still worked for the NHS, every year we would have like a Christmas collection instead of sending Christmas cards and they’d nominate a charity. And one year someone put her hand up and said, it was like a chronic fatigue/ME charity, and i was sat in the audience of this meeting, rolling my eyes, like that isn’t even a real thing. I cant believe our donation is going to this charity. While I myself was suffering from chronic fatigue. So that’s how heavily i was brainwashed that i didn’t believe in something i had.

S: Wow, my goodness. So, obviously this is quite a recent diagnosis for you but also i guess, its come at quite a timely point in your life where you are able to manage your own working day and manage your condition around your work life. How does it impact your day to day, I mean what does a bad day look for you and how do you navigate them?

ST: Yeah so i mean, a really bad day for me is 100% in bed, can't really get up, can’t really do anything. There’s another diagnosis that maybe we’ll get on to that has meant that i’ve started some different medication so for the last 12 months i’ve had alot more good days and my days don't often look like that. But a bad day now is still a maximum of 6 hours of functional time, so that is the time in which i can play with my daughter and cook meals, but also run my business and also pay my bills and do all that life admin and wash my hair. I mean, and up until the medication change a year ago, my husband would have to wash my hair for me, because I just didn’t have enough energy. If i did that, that came at the opportunity cost of doing something else, like running one of my classes online or something. So he has been kind of this evolving level of care for me, where some days he’s like, a full carer but thankfully right now at the moment, you know, i'm actually much more of an active and engaged participant in my life and he’s not having to do as much for me. Most people have no idea about that side of it at a