Syreeta Challinger Transcript

Hello, I’m Syreeta Challinger, and welcome to Leaven - the podcast for conversations on hope, love, life and everything in between.

Welcome to the end of this first season of Leaven, today’s episode is just me - I have a little bit extra from my conversation with Faye Isaac talking - we are just simply talking - it is more important than ever to have conversations when emotions are being felt deeply and oh boy globally we are all feeling all manner of emotions deeply through this year of viral dominance and this insane pandemic.

Whether it is pure joy, pain, we connect as humans when sharing - it is soothing, it is soothing, it is cathartic, stories in folklore stem from just that. The healers in west Africa asked the sick: “when was the last time that you sang? When was the last time that you danced? When was the last time you shared a story? Sharing our stories is healing. The simple act of having a conversation, sharing a story of what has happened to you is one of life’s most simple, yet life affirming experiences.

Sharing our hearts, hopes, fears, loves and losses brings us all closer together.

The act of sharing empowers us to face head on the unknowns ahead - trauma, illness and grief create frightening forests of pain with unfamiliar roads. Hearing other stories can help us navigate a deep, dark wood of despair or simply bolster our confidence so that when we do face it and feel lost, we have the tools to get through.

There is also the cathartic effect for both the person sharing and for those listening. The more we hear and hold space for others, the deeper our awareness of the self, the compassion and ultimately the human connection, the deeper we connect to ourselves, the better we can connect to others and right now, it feels like this is what the world needs more of - deeper connection to ourselves, each other, to the land, and to nature, the animal kingdom, as much as we try to deny it or move away from it, it is all intertwined, connected as one.

Exploring grief and getting curious about deep emotions and sharing has been a life’s work for Faye.

My guest on episode six - Faye Isaac - is a friend, we connected through our stories when we met back in 2015, just one of those chance meetings when we went deep in there straight from the off and we have been friends ever since.

This is a little snippet of our conversation, an extra part of our recording, but I feel it is really important to share.

So here is Faye.

FI: “One thing which has kind of stuck with me which I wanted to elaborate a bit more on when I was younger is because I lost my mum so young, I have kind of always been ‘she does not remember, not that it does not matter to me but I don’t really remember, so I’m not really grieving, kind of thing, so that has always been quite confusing for me yet from the outside in, I have always kind of been the child that me and my sister have been - you know the child without a mum - your mum died and you have been labelled with that.

It’s strange because I think I have always removed myself from that label maybe as an adult because it would not really come up in conversation with new people as an adult with new people unless I started talking about my family and would only really mention my dad and they would say: ‘oh you know, have your parents split up?’ And that would lead onto that conversation and I think it is important to share that part of my story because it is such a huge part of my story that I don’t talk about really, and I’m always sort of conscious about people really pitying me because as a child you got a lot of that from people, and she was always spoken about and has always been very present in my life and my dad has always made sure of that and a lot of my family constantly even now talk about her so I have been very lucky that she has been kept alive in that sense.

But I have definitely kind of just - not shut it off, but not let that be my Identity.

SC: “Of course, because you don’t want that, when you have that kind of stigma and you had the kind of challenges you had when you were growing up, you kind of want to shake it off as a grown up don’t you? I could completely understand why, but then you don’t want to also carry it so deep that you get at the same time - so it is about finding the right balance isn’t it?

FI: “Yeah and I think when anything tragic or you know if anyone has a trauma happen in their life, a lot of the time it is public or certainly public to the people close to them and it can become very much part of your identity before you are, and I think I was trying to step away from that, not consciously, but I think actually thinking about this chat has made me think maybe I have done that but it is always not something you bring up in conversation. It is nice to talk about her.

SC: “It is something you can only share when you feel safe and in a comfortable place and you trust the person which is just why I was so touched that you said yes to speaking to me.

FI: “I was so touched you asked me, because again I think I was so far removed from it in a way I did not expect it at all - does that make sense? But then I also equally, like I mentioned before, how long ago it was or how recent the thing is which happened is traumatic, is still going through it and still navigating it. I think when I had Nell that definitely made me revisit a lot of things that perhaps I had not dealt with or perhaps had briefly before.

SC: “Becoming a mum becomes a healing journey within itself really, for sure, all of these things which you have not even thought about or even thought twice about have suddenly become the forefront of your mind and I can imagine it must have been heightened tenfold for you even with all of these milestones and birthdays which come along, and it is not like I’m trying to hang onto your grief coattails, I think because we have had so many conversations about your emotions around the whole circumstance with your mum and your family and things like that, and I just thought I’m sure there are so many other people who have been through something like this or are going through something like this.

FI: “Absolutely, and it’s bizarre and I don’t have anything to compare with having a close relationship with my mum so it’s, you are kind of thrown in, and when I had Nell did nothing expect the amount of emotion and what it would bring up, I just did not expect it at all and you can’t plan anyway, even if you have everyone around you, because you just can’t, your instincts kick in and you just navigate through it, and yeah this January I will be 33, which was the same age my mum was when she died and that sort of milestone is creeping up and the anxiety around that. Even talking about that is important.

SC: “There’s a book called ‘the body keeps the score’ and is based upon research on soldiers going through post traumatic stress disorder but it opens up the whole conversation about humanity and how we store our losses and our griefs and traumas within our body and it is a physical thing which will rise up, even if intellectually you know what’s coming with the anniversary and things like that, then it is a physical thing, but acknowledging it and processing it is incredibly important and you can’t fight it.

FI: “it’s crazy because mentally you’re like ‘I know this is coming up,’ and you almost try and talk yourself into how you are going to deal with it but the truth is you can’t know until you are in that moment or talking is just so important, you know, whether you are currently going through it or are having anxiety about something which is approaching or something which is in the past, it is so important to have these conversations and I do hope that, you know, this might encourage someone to talk about something if they have anything on their mind and this space is the perfect place to access it, people can come here if they want to explore different things and people will visit your space when the time is right for them which I think is wonderful and it is very accessible for people and that in itself, to be a part of that, is very special so thank you.

SC: “Oh no, thank you, and that is wonderful that you say that because it does not have to be a celebrity who has been through that, I just want people to understand and hear stories from everyday folk to know it is something which I know you can get through, no matter what it is, and that talking and hearing other stories and sharing your own stories is all part of the process and there is no right or wrong either. I think that is what is important here. Everyone’s experiences are different and how what’s right for us might not be right for you, and you might have to find your own way through.

“I think the more openness there is about these conversations about experiences of dealing with something, the easier it is for other people to find their own way.

FI: “yes, absolutely, because I don’t remember my mum in real life, I only sort of only have pictures of her, I don’t have any video footage or sound recordings of her voice so I have kind of put together in my head a vision of what she looks like or what her mannerisms are or how she laughs and when I see pictures of her from, you know, distant relatives or old friends that she went to university with or I will see a photo that I have never seen or I have pretty much seen most of them, obviously not digitally and it is strange when I come across a photo of her I have not seen before, of her, but it is taken from a different angle. I will see a different side of her face and will think ‘oh I don’t know that side of her’ or that expression or that reaction, or the way she is laughing there and I’m constantly building a memory of her in a way and a lot of the people I meet who did not know her will probably have similar memory from probably being so close to family or its a strange one - it’s not your average grief, it’s hard to describe, but I am constantly exploring it at the same time. I think maybe that slight detachment has made me more curious to explore grief and figure it out and try and sort of navigate it at different stages of my life, so I’m grateful for that.

SC: “That curiosity is trying to understand yourself and have that self awareness of learning. That is empathy on a whole different level, you are quite something miss Faye, as in a remarkable human, we are all complicated really, but that is what makes us human, it would be bloody boring if we weren’t, wouldn’t it? My gosh.

FI: “But I have really enjoyed this and it’s meant a hell of a lot that you have asked me to be on this platform and share my story because I have never done it before and it does feel like I have just taken a big deep breath and just released it all so thank you for letting me do that. But I look at you and its like we are going to get married or move away or get our own place or we are going to have a baby so why let anything stop us. We have had the worst thing which can happen and you have just charged through and I just really admire your strength and it is crazy what how strong people are when they are faced with the most difficult situations and challenging and traumatic and yeah, I’m just always like ‘what? You’re doing a podcast?’

SC: “do you know what? This has come about because I understand that we are the product, because people have been very kind and supported our wheres, and still do, but actually they are there for the story, they are there to hear how we got through or to lift them on a bad day to share our experiences of what we are going through and I thought actually I get so many DM’s - an overwhelming amount sometimes - and I just thought if you think about the public speaking aspect and all of the things I had planned in this year but just had to go by the wayside, I thought it was just the perfect time to marry the two of them together and see where we end up.

FI: “It’s a relaxing space and it’s like you are allowing other people to join that space and it is even more powerful, and I see the response you get on social media, and I can see relationships forming, between you and people who follow you and that is just incredible, you know people just either get it or are taking something away from what you have given is just amazing - and this was just a no brainier I think.

SC: “Thank you, it has been a battle of confidence, and a battle of like worthiness, there has been some fierce constructive feedback as well shall I say but then this space is not for everybody. We have got a small following but they are fiercely loyal and they do get it.”

FI: “I also think people should not judge that you are doing it, you know, for some kind of - to achieve some kind of level of that industry - because it is not really about that, your following will be organic but it will be genuine and even if it just helps you, it is going to help people or it is going to inspire people, you know, it is just so amazing, and it just fits with what you are doing completely and don’t stop. You just stand there having a chat and it’s just a natural thing that people can just dip in and out of if they feel it fits with what they want to listen to or explore and I love it.”

SC: “You are so biased, but I will take it.”

FI: “I am. But it is justified, come on.”

SC: “I know, I know, but I am just getting embarrassed now.”

FI: “But come on, just keep doing it please.”

SC: “the power of storytelling right there, so many of you will know that this podcast has come from grief and from my story which you may know from following us from ‘Moments Of Sense And Style’ or perhaps heard in episode one, and if you haven’t then perhaps you could go right back and listen to it, but the more I share and speak with others, the more curious I am becoming about how this space and how the podcast can evolve and perhaps one day soon I can bring you all together for us to revel in each other’s presence to feel the tangible and electrifying effects in the same room. To touch hands and to look each other in the eye and witness each other’s stories. Until then I hope you have found solace or comfort in hearing this podcast, to understand that you are not alone and there is a way through no matter what you might be going through. I have got the deepest, deepest gratitude for you all for listening. Thank you for being here, thank you for listening and until the next series, lots of love